Dark Phoenix Postmortem: An X-Men Franchise Retrospective

Dark Phoenix which has been subject to heavy reshoots and seen its release date pushed back several times over, marks the final installment of Fox’es X-men franchise. However, there was hardly any hype for it in advance, it’s been mauled by critics and fans a like, and it tanked at the boxoffice, so much so that it may ultimately lose the studio more than a hundred million.
In this postmortem retrospective, we will explore not just how Dark Phoenix could end up this bad, but how the entire franchise could g.o back and forth between greatness and utter mediocrity.
To do that, we will go back to the beginnings of the franchise, and briefly explore each movie in it, what made them either work or fail, to see how it all culiminated into Dark Phoenix, and what the future might hold at Disney.

You might also be interested in…
Josh Trank’s Fantastic Four:
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Tom Rothman and Deadpool:
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Comments

  1. jeffrey dahmere

    jeffrey dahmere2 days ago

    X1 and 2 and first class were great , I personally like days of future past but I got the feeling that with the material they got it could've been way better , but it was great too , I haven't seen logan and death pool , the rest of the movies are garbage

  2. Jake Mellen

    Jake Mellen6 days ago

    I think fox could do what Disney wanted to try to do politically, without Disney getting the black eye. Dark Phoenix and recently fox’s involvement In Terminator Dark Fate prove this point. They both flopped for their forced and to obvious political messages around weak plots.

  3. Austin Trench

    Austin Trench10 days ago

    Brians personal issues were he was a pedophile and a rapist.

  4. Tracus Cherry

    Tracus Cherry19 days ago

    How does mystique get more airtime than cyclops. This is why all the xmen movies suck.

  5. fusionaut23

    fusionaut2321 day ago

    Dark Phoenix and the Joker were the only comic book related films that I saw that dared to be different. Dark Phoenix was penned as a drama / psychological thriller and the Joker was written in a similar style. These two films could never be included in the Martin Scorsese, Francis Ford Coppola criticisms because they were standouts in their genre of films. Dark Phoenix and the Joker were easily the best comic book movies of the year.

  6. Sebas G

    Sebas GMonth ago

    poor Sophie Turner, twice sabotaged she was.

  7. Sylvia Delaney

    Sylvia DelaneyMonth ago

    Between X3 and Dark Phoenix I think I prefer X3 because of the second main plot point of the cure for mutant powers. It's just nicer to watch the one that isn't solely focused on Jean Grey who I was never a big fan of no matter how well her actress portrayed her. And she was acted quite well in both films. I also have to say that I think part of why Dark Phoenix flopped was because of the insistence to do the Dark Phoenix story again.

  8. Sylvia Delaney

    Sylvia DelaneyMonth ago

    I don't think any of them are actually bad movies and I think the ones with the lesser scripts and directing had some actors in them who really worked some magic with what they were given to work with and how they were being directed.

  9. Sylvia Delaney

    Sylvia DelaneyMonth ago

    I have actually been able to enjoy all of these movies to the point of at least a 7 out of 10. I can also appreciate them all as stand alone works more than I can when trying to consider them an actual series of films because the continuity is serious just not there most of the time.

  10. Isaiah Amos

    Isaiah AmosMonth ago

    I love x-Men days of future past off the topic of this video how in the hell is quicksilver so awesome and cool and the flash which essentially has the same superpower sucks in justice league I wish someone could explain that to me

  11. borgtennis

    borgtennisMonth ago

    Dark Phoenix Saga the comics is the best thing from Marvel period. Cramming it in a movie was the first mistake. The movie wasn't that bad as a whole although it betrayed Xavier's character. When Xavier and Magneto are strong the movie is also strong. Portraying Xavier as a douche was ill advised. Another subversive take we didn't need. Scott should have been way stronger and the love between Scott and Jane should have been wayyyyyyyy better because that is what is at the center of the Saga. How Scott and the team tried against all odds to win vs there most powerful enemy only ... to fail.

  12. John Daniels

    John DanielsMonth ago

    All of the X-Men movies are garbage, even the newer ones, Logan is the only exception. As far as I'm concerned there hasn't been a good X-Men movie made. The only reason people like them is the same as fans of the DCEU, they're just happy to see their favorite comic books in live-action.

  13. Melo Universal

    Melo UniversalMonth ago

    Why do they keep hiring Kinberg tho?

  14. Madalin Grama

    Madalin GramaMonth ago

    At times great? When has it ever been great? Excluding Logan and the two Deadpool movies (which are all very good, but I'd hesitate to call them great and they're so dettached from everything else, that it hardly matters), the best movie is X2: X-Men United and I'd hardly call it an unforgettable masterpiece. Everything else is either mediocre and boring (The Wolverine, X-Men, First Class) or total shite (X-Men Origins: Wolverine, Apocalypse, Last Stand, Dark Phoenix). Of the new McAvoy/Fassbender movies, Days of Future Past is the only one that's even passable. I really don't know why people like First Class so much. It sucks almost as much as Apocalypse.

  15. Jacob Boeke

    Jacob BoekeMonth ago

    Dark Phoenix was pretty weak story/character wise. Some subpar performances and actor motivated nonsense BUT there were like 4 parts where they were the X-men doing bad ass X-men shit and I dug that hard.

  16. skeaneable

    skeaneableMonth ago

    What about Marvel's Blade two years earlier with Wesley Snipes?

  17. Wing Nut

    Wing Nut2 months ago

    I am done with Xmen. Killing Mystique...I didn't even finish the film.

  18. Michael Richter

    Michael Richter2 months ago

    Amazing Dark Sweater Girl is now dead.

  19. Benjamin D Minor

    Benjamin D Minor2 months ago

    Jennifer Lawrence didn’t help the film either, they should have canned her spoiled ass 2 movies ago.

  20. Thor C.

    Thor C.2 months ago

    CLEARLY THE DIRECTOR/WRITER ARE IDIOTS TO NOT KNOW THAT SINGLE FACT THAT TELEKINESIS DOESN'T REALLY HAVE TO REQUIRE HAND GESTURES IN ORDER TO PERFORM ESPECIALLY WITH THE LIMITLESS MIND POWERS SHE CURRENTLY IN. THEY SHOULD HAVE COPIED HOW FAMKE PORTRAYED HER IN X3, WHEREIN SHE DOESN'T HAVE A SINGLE HAND GESTURES SHOWN, WITHOUT EVEN STRUGGLING A BIT. IT WAS ALSO SHOWN THAT SHE HAS FULL CONTROL WITH HER PSYCHIC ABILTIES WHILE STILL USING TELEKINESIS AT THE SAME TIME AS SHE WAS ABLE TO FORSEE THE INCOMING CURE SYRINGES THE SOLDIERS FROM HER BACK HAS LAUNCHED AND IN MIDAIR WITHOUT EVEN HAVING PERIPHERAL VISION AND WAS ABLE TO PULVERIZE THEM IN A SPLIT SECOND. CUZ DAMN, SHE SUPPOSED TO BE AN INTIMIDATING GODDESSLIKE, AND NOT LIKE IN THIS ADAPTATION WHERE SHE STRUGGLES AS MUCH AS MAGNETO, JUST FOR CONTROLLING A "SINGLE" HELICOPTER. MY GOD. WHO AGREE WITH ME?

  21. John Jackson

    John Jackson2 months ago

    Considering the recent push for diversity in the MCU and the plans to shoehorn in gender and identity politics into future releases. My guess, Disney plans to piss away a potential money maker in a blizt of 3rd wave Feminist propaganda, in exactly the same way they have killed their Star Wars Franchise. Ultimately, they will kill a successful Brand.

  22. Ethan Cooke

    Ethan Cooke2 months ago

    I haven't seen Dark Phoenix, but I doubt it's better than The Last Stand or Origins. TLS and Origins weren't great, but they really weren't terrible, in my opinion. Maybe Dark Phoenix doesn't deserve overwhelmingly negative reviews (though it looks incredibly boring and average to me), but neither do TLS or Origins.

  23. john silcox

    john silcox3 months ago

    Really it should have stopped after the first X-Men movie , X-Men apocalypse X-Men first class they were okay X-Men rogue nation was good

  24. New Dream

    New Dream3 months ago

    Are you crazy? X-Men 2 is far superior to the 1st, and at the time was considered the best comic-book movie sequel.

  25. Josiah Bahuaud

    Josiah Bahuaud3 months ago

    Bob Hoskins as Wolverine would have been sooooooooo bad. Lol

  26. MarkAndrewEdwards

    MarkAndrewEdwards3 months ago

    From the title, I expected more analysis about Dark Phoenix. This was interesting, but the X-Men franchise stuff should have been its own video....or maybe it already is, and I haven't gone deep enough into the archives.

  27. Max555

    Max5553 months ago

    Simon Kinberg is just another hack writer and director

  28. Logan Wolverine

    Logan Wolverine3 months ago

    It sucked because Sansa sucks as Jean.

  29. Μανος Κομπανης

    Μανος Κομπανης3 months ago

    The greatest enemy of the X-Men is not Magneto or the Sentinels. It's a gigantic asshole known as Tom Rothman.

  30. George R

    George R3 months ago

    I still remember when they said , in times of Xmen 1 that they were going to do a movie about the origins of each xmen, and we only got to see wolverine lol. At this point, i really dont care, for me, the xmen saga is over after the last one. And of course, if they going to use this actress, i prefer to puke instead.

  31. OuterRaine

    OuterRaine3 months ago

    They had someone from FF and Elektra help write for X-Men 3 and several others? No wonder they did poorly. Fantastic Four, People whine about power and nothing noteworthy happens. Elektra, what the heck am i watching.

  32. David Curry

    David Curry3 months ago

    Brett Ratner wasn't a good choice at all, but the X-Men series did need a different perspective. Matt Vaughn and James Mangold gave the series the shot in the arm it needed It's too bad that Singer couldn't finish his trilogy. Like Zack Snyder and the DCEU, Singer clearly had a vision for the series (but unlike Snyder, audiences and critics responded well to Singer's work. So unlike WB, there wasn't an excuse for Rothman and Fox to give him the run-around after X2) But as good as X2 and DoFP were, it would take a ton of effort from Disney to make audiences _prefer_ the Fox franchise compared to the MCU. Logan should stand the test of time, because it's a high quality film, and because nobody in the movie is wearing the dumb Fox uniforms. The rest of the series will be a campy memory of the 2000s

  33. David Curry

    David Curry3 months ago

    Look at Star Wars (owned by Disney). How much effort did it take to mess up the most famous franchise in Hollywood, that even kids don't want it? The prequels from Lucas didn't go over well with _adults,_ who noticed the storytelling and characterization and production flaws. Redlettermedia hangs its hat on pointing those flaws out. But kids were drawn to the imaginative world building and creativity. Lucas understands that part (and RLM didn't). The sequels are like those Adi Shankar fan films designed for grizzled adults who want to see a "mature" and cynical take on their childhood media. As a result the sequels have nothing to offer for children, and the only grizzled adults that the sequels cater to are feminists

  34. TheComeUp18

    TheComeUp183 months ago

    "Brett Ratner wasn't a good choice at all, but the X-Men series did need a different perspective." This statement summarises everything with the former X-Men series. Giving Singer his credit for making X-Men a franchise, his grounded world left a lot to be desired, especially considering the state we are at now with comic-book movies. That is the reason I felt like this sega was always going to end on a sour note due to a non- innovated world. With Dark Phoneix, if they would have continued to go all out and used more alien comsic elements from the source, the movie wouldn't have felt so average, which for a story about humans with powers the last thing the movie should be called is subpar. A large portion of the MCU general fans are followers who will convert to anything new, so saying it would take a ton of effort from Disney to make audiences prefer the Fox franchise compared to the MCU isn't saying much, as if everything Marvel creatively does is perfect.

  35. Alexander Galliano

    Alexander Galliano3 months ago

    stark girls dont fare well in the south

  36. SHIN BAKI HANMA

    SHIN BAKI HANMA3 months ago

    To be fair to Tom Rothman, to be FAIR... ALL of the XMEN films (with the exception of LOGAN) were/are TERRIBLE.🤣😂😆

  37. devi2691

    devi26913 months ago

    i'm dreading MCU X-Men. not for any politics BS, they have X-Force, X-Factor, Generation X, etc..., but more in line i don't see how a company like Disney will accurately portray a universe where the majority HATES the minority, the way many regular people hate the X-men. X-Men was an analogy first for Jewish people, then later was adopted by the LGBTQ+ minority for the prejudice and fear that resonates perpetual outsiders when they're faced with a society that doesn't want them. Like 2019 USA with blondie in the White House. and i don't see Disney doing anything close to that concept ANY kind of accurate justice. at best it will come off as bland meh, and at worst it will be insulting parody where white, hetronormative, boys will get beaten up for being normal. Disney, the place where dreams come true.. and Deadpool isn't welcome..

  38. Lydia-Renee Darling

    Lydia-Renee Darling3 months ago

    So disappointed with how X-Men ended, but so excited to see what the Disney acquisition means for the X-Men down the line.

  39. Dan Williams

    Dan Williams3 months ago

    Am I one of the few people who actually LIKED X-Men Apocalypse?

  40. Midnight's Edge

    Midnight's Edge3 months ago

    Apparantly so.

  41. Deconverted Man

    Deconverted Man3 months ago

    They just can't seem to get xmen right most of the time. Like.. idk. Maybe Marvel will do it right. They just can't do Dark Phoenix right! Geez. Also they just FUC--ed up Quick Silver in DP. -_-;

  42. Bayindo Studios

    Bayindo Studios3 months ago

    They can just continue with the Franchise with nth realization that Jean Grey is still alive. Just have a new cast, a director with vision, and don't put Wolverine at the forefront of the franchise. Its called the X-Men, not The X-Wolverine.

  43. RottenDoctorGonzo

    RottenDoctorGonzo3 months ago

    New Atheists like Dawkins and materialists are the devil's work. They made us believe we're mere biological machines; that our longing for transcendence was a by-product of the clever mind. That the pantheon of Greek gods puts all gods on an equal footing. These are lies, my friends. Arm yourselves with actual philosophy, it has rules of logic that help us think to the best of our capabilities.

  44. os2nuke

    os2nuke3 months ago

    Wow I disagree with you almost completely, never watching any reviews or retrospectives or whatever from you again.

  45. Lee;O Gone Wild

    Lee;O Gone Wild3 months ago

    I wish you would have touched on the casting change and the drastic change from makeup to cgi, both of those contributed heavily. Extremely good actors and makeup artists from the first 3 to god knows what. I did love days of future past because they brought back the old characters and the theme was a lot darker, since then, absolutely TERRIBLE. Sophie and Jennifer ruined this franchise. No reason Famke and Rebecca couldn’t come back.

  46. Ryan Stewart

    Ryan Stewart3 months ago

    WHAT A BUNCH OF JACK ASSES, that did not believe in the first film, before it was released!!!!! Smh. The one and only reason it does not hold up to this day, is because it looks so dated. Which ONLY HAPPENED, because they had their shooting schedule and post production had FOUR MONTHS cut out from under them.

  47. Ryan Stewart

    Ryan Stewart3 months ago

    AMAZING video. Wow.

  48. GREENACEx009

    GREENACEx0093 months ago

    I might be the only one i here who actually liked Dark Phoenix.. They may have had a rushed plot but as seen here they were screwed with rewrites (allegedly because it was too similar to Disneys Captain Marvel) and the buyout meant they wouldnt get another movie to explore these characters. I liked that they actually werent afraid to get dark with character arcs even on smaller characters like Nightcrawler. I really enjoyed the recasting of the “prequel xmen” so its a shame these actors wont come back for an MCU version. People complain about continuity errors and weird plots but hey thats literally how it goes in the actual comics... so with some suspending of disbelief and the facts it got botched and rebuilt last minute, it deserved better than its box office numbers

  49. John Magin

    John Magin3 months ago

    Sophie married Joe Jonas, she's gonna be ok for a while.

  50. Chris Corley

    Chris Corley3 months ago

    Dark Phoenix rocks! $250 million earned, you robotic tone scumbags.

  51. clarissa35f

    clarissa35f3 months ago

    X-men is not Outdated. It's run it's course, and the fans have ZERO faith in a Fox X-men film, knowing that anything MCU produces would be 10 x's better. People are TOO excited about MCU X-men to care for anything Fox could have produced and they see any Fox X-men productions as just another obstacle that will Just push back any MCU X-men films... do not expect New Mutaznts on the big screen,... chances are they will just chuck it and swallow the loss, or put it on the Disney streaming service.

  52. Zach Da Mack

    Zach Da Mack3 months ago

    Good content but absolutely terrible awful narration and your cadence/tone make it impossible to listen to your voice.

  53. Jay McD

    Jay McD3 months ago

    Bury the entire Fox X-Men mess and let the dust settle for a good few years and reboot it Marvel style!

  54. The Russ Man

    The Russ Man4 months ago

    Sophie Turner running her mouth to/about the fans disappointment of the last season of GOT had more to do with this than advertised here... given it most certainly was not the ENTIRE reason for the monumental failure......

  55. Dade Lee Murphy

    Dade Lee Murphy4 months ago

    considering Stan lee has died I would not be surprised the shit they pull

  56. Jennifer Alvarado

    Jennifer Alvarado4 months ago

    Any version without Lilandra and D'Ken is not worth watching!

  57. EnigmaDrath

    EnigmaDrath4 months ago

    I assumed Logan WAS the final movie. Was totally blindsided when Dark Phoenix dropped, then totally confused as to why it existed at all :/

  58. Jason Kostelecky

    Jason Kostelecky4 months ago

    i liked Dark Phoenix, hated Logan, they completely killed the character Wolverine

  59. Ran Mckalser

    Ran Mckalser4 months ago

    Love sophie turner hate the movie

  60. Chris Jericho

    Chris Jericho4 months ago

    X-men cracked the modern ensemble superhero movie. Blade was a great solo superhero movie, two years before X-men.

  61. Chris Jericho

    Chris Jericho4 months ago

    I wish someone would publish a video showing how these executives make the studios their money. Is their only job to keep the studio afloat through mediocrity? It would seem if someone is doing a job well you would support them, but I dont believe these guys in charge know what a good movie is from what a bad movie is.

  62. Chris Foster

    Chris Foster4 months ago

    But why ohWhy would they kill off mystique in the final ....just ridiculous decisions all round....but that was so unnecessary

  63. Caleb Bay

    Caleb Bay4 months ago

    I didnt see it because, Wemon treat men like trash these days.. It makes me wanna "exsorsist vomit"

  64. ShadXGhost _

    ShadXGhost _4 months ago

    This movie was boring that I even slept thought the action scene lol and I want my refund of my ticket logan was one of the best movie in my opinion so yeah...