Mythology Matters #6 - Japanese Myths - Extra Mythology

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We learn about how some classic Japanese myths were created thanks to the combined influence of Shinto and Buddhism. Also, a lot of horror myths actually come from Noh theater! Is a myth still mythology if it was very deliberately invented by an author?
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Comments

  1. Extra Credits

    Extra Credits3 months ago

    Did you know we have an Extra Mythology shirt? store.dftba.com/collections/extracredits/products/extra-mythology-logo-shirt

  2. Lance Magmer

    Lance Magmer2 months ago

    I think some recent myths would be Dracula and Frankenstein

  3. bane dragon

    bane dragon2 months ago

    I know who homer is, son of abe father of Bart Lisa and Maggie

  4. LegoCookieDoggie

    LegoCookieDoggie3 months ago

    I would like to ask a question to your question: do you interpret the bible as myth?

  5. fire is awesome

    fire is awesome3 months ago

    Mr.james here your answer : Duh, buddhism is basically diet Hinduism I.e take out bullshit of gods keep dharma and nirvana in. Since humans like bullshit Japanese buddhism or Chinese buddhism is just Hinduism Just look at Saraswati or benzaiten in japan Or just look up "Yijing" in general

  6. MadDog95

    MadDog953 months ago

    I really like this format where you stand somewhere and talk

  7. Valery0p 5

    Valery0p 524 days ago

    What if we start "Extra Theater"? ^.^

  8. GhostofNr9

    GhostofNr92 months ago

    You actually could get some grasp on the issue by lookin at Goethes Faust. He was takin pre-existing material and built his own story about it and the main background was a new style of German, mainly he and Schiller were carrying forward. Of course this may not give an answer to "what is a myth", but maybe to the question "how to do a myth", so some aspects of technique, that are rather well documented...

  9. The J.A.P

    The J.A.P2 months ago

    What r u doin in my swamp m8

  10. Gandalf Stormcloud

    Gandalf Stormcloud2 months ago

    Not one Japanese myth. Just a dirty hippy rambling.

  11. Mayank khatri

    Mayank khatri2 months ago

    Do more mythology videos please

  12. steve flumiani

    steve flumiani2 months ago

    you need to get yourself a wearable mic dude

  13. Carewolf

    Carewolf2 months ago

    Tolkien is already myth. I think something counts as myth as soon as it is something most people know. and other authors build on top of as if it is an essential part of our culture

  14. Daniella

    Daniella2 months ago

    Mic yourself up

  15. ΑΔΕΛΦΙΑ Κ ΚΟΚΚ

    ΑΔΕΛΦΙΑ Κ ΚΟΚΚ2 months ago

    Look at the greek meaning of the word mythos

  16. alarcon99

    alarcon992 months ago

    Now please cover Santeria religion and myths

  17. Inda Fernandez

    Inda Fernandez2 months ago

    I totally want an Extra History about Virgil now.

  18. ferretyluv

    ferretyluv2 months ago

    I was hoping that this episode would go into more detail about Kojiki and stuff, not about what counts as a myth.

  19. Banditking

    Banditking2 months ago

    I've always attributed religious people with comic book fans. Both take their stories very seriously. Both hate change. Both will crucify you if you don't agree with them.

  20. O378D

    O378D2 months ago

    I think I agree with the people who say that a myth has to be a story which seeks to rationalise some phenomenon, so it to some extent takes the place of history. This can vary between the explanations of why a certain behaviour is right, to explanations of political geography such as the Iliad or Aeneid, to something as random as explanations of why that mountain over there is the shape that it is. Myths fill the gap between what can be easily explained and what we want to know. That's why fantasy is not mythology, because mythology has to be in some way attached narratively to the real world, either by referencing something familiar or by making it ambiguous enough that it could have happened on earth. A myth goes, "once upon a time, a thing happened, and that's why this is the way it is." Fantasy worlds such as Tolkein's Middle Earth have their own mythologies, stories about that world that explain the way it is, whether true or not. What fantasy adds is the layer that the world the myth takes place in is not our own.

  21. Darkmystic

    Darkmystic2 months ago

    Wind ruins the video.

  22. Vladimir Lagos

    Vladimir Lagos2 months ago

    The underlying concept behind a myth is that the word describes that nebulous area between fact and fiction that results from the passage of time and retelling changes to an incident's narrative. However, if you can categorically confirm a work is fiction, in my opinion it is, by definition, no longer a myth. Thus, great culturally significant works such as Frankenstein or Dracula are good fiction works, but by no means are they Western myths. Same goes for Japan and any other country; if you can pinpoint an author and confirm its fictional nature, it is not a myth, just a literary work.

  23. kailomonkey

    kailomonkey2 months ago

    Myth. A story that has passed through enough people that its mere existence within storytelling substantiates itself. I just made that definition up but I hope you like it. It could pass through people due to a huge passage of time (traditional myth) or just because it's vague enough or rings true enough that people take it on (cthulu, slenderman). Also if something is birthed from the human mind, is it any less real?

  24. Mathieu Leader

    Mathieu Leader2 months ago

    ooh outdoors

  25. Greig Burges

    Greig Burges2 months ago

    Oh, I wanted some cool yokai stories.

  26. Red Sparks

    Red Sparks2 months ago

    Maybe Joseph Campbell's book Masks of God Volume 4 Creative Mythology may help with your question. Maybe.

  27. Falka Riannon

    Falka Riannon2 months ago

    I might be weird but I even see things like Star Wars, Final Fantasy or Marvel as mythology. I never really understood seperating storys by their known "release date". And I would argue that more people argue over Iron Man, The Hulk, Cloud Strife and Luke Skywalker nowadays than Odin, Amaterasu, Ganesha and Gilgamesh on a daily basis. And in the case of norse mythology more people now know the Marvel versions of the gods than the Edda versions. The best example would be Loki who was not directly related to Odin or Thor in the Edda. (Well Odin is a blood brother of Loki but that's it)

  28. DonPeyote

    DonPeyote2 months ago

    could you have picked a more windy spot?

  29. diebesgrab

    diebesgrab2 months ago

    “It’s one of the very few cases where an external religion came to the country-in this case, Buddhism-and didn’t totally replace or destroy the traditional religion” Just like China?

  30. NephilimHunter

    NephilimHunter2 months ago

    I think a Myth has to have said to have actually happened, in the context of Ancient Cultures these stories are said to be true the same way we see the bible as true today. Tolkien could never be a Myth since it's a story set in a fantasy world and so disconnected to our own world that it could never be conceived as true.

  31. Alex Brown

    Alex Brown2 months ago

    Belief is one point where something becomes myth. We will never believe Tolkien's stories were real. But did people ever believe those Japanese Ghost stories? The next point is influence: is it something that has become so rooted in the culture that it can or be extracted? The Bible in the US, for exampme, where even those who are not Christian have to have a working knowledge to navigate things like politics and television and literature.

  32. NightBlado

    NightBlado2 months ago

    If you want to make these Matters videos matter James, then have the decency to care for them even the slightest to record proper audio. What I am saying is: the plain office background is so much better than some visual that appeals to your mindset, if aiming for that mindset makes you lose audience and therefore not pass the info of the video forward. =(

  33. James Nickelson

    James Nickelson2 months ago

    Horrible audio quality! Love the channel, love the content. Very minor complaint.

  34. Ty Larson

    Ty Larson2 months ago

    Grecobuddhism is a syncretic system with even having herakles merging with vajrapani to be buddha's bodyguard. The Yona monks who went to china (yona being iona or greek) brought Mahayana buddhism there which went to japan. Greek bactria and the indo scythans really had a huge influence on india and east asia. Greek made crowns from scythan kings even ended up being used for ideas by korean kings for example.

  35. Noune Whiso

    Noune Whiso2 months ago

    Face reveal

  36. phoenixking62

    phoenixking622 months ago

    Didn't the Greeks and Romans also do this? That is: taking pre-existing religions and adding their gods and myths to their pantheons? If you want an example, look up "OSP Dionysus" on youtube.

  37. sirrliv

    sirrliv2 months ago

    That actually is an interesting question: When does a story cross the line to become a myth? This is something I've been curious about for some time, particularly regarding the mythological status of more modern legends and tall tales; Can legendary figures from modern history, some of whom are mere folk fiction and some who were very real but achieved larger-than-life status port-mortum, characters like the lumberjack Paul Bunyan, John Henry the steel-driving man, locomotive driver Casey Jones, or Mose the fireman, achieve a status similar to the myths of old?

  38. sirrliv

    sirrliv2 months ago

    Japanese ghost stories? Sounds like October's lineup is all sewn up then.

  39. Phil Hunnicutt

    Phil Hunnicutt3 months ago

    I've had similar thoughts, but it's more regarding what happens with canon for series. So like comic books, right? They've sorry of become these only slightly sub-religious style narratives, right? Sure, there's no Batman rituals we really perform culturally, but the conversations people have surrounding our pop culture (i.e. "Is Batman/Superman, etc. a fascist?") are similar to the types of conversations people used to have in churches regarding slavery, which is what lead to the abolition movement in the US or the labor movement internationally. So what happens to Batman when he goes public domain (because one day that will happen)? Who gets to determine what is canon for let's say Fallout if it becomes no longer popular, but the old games remain significant in our culture for some reason? Does this stuff eventually get absorbed into a religious tradition? Isn't it kinda good to have fictions that we all know and get raised on that you can mess around with that won't get you called a blasphemer for tinkering with? I really don't have a good answer for any of it, but I wonder about it a while lot.

  40. MagnuMagnus

    MagnuMagnus3 months ago

    Dude, that wind is not doing you any favors.

  41. MagnuMagnus

    MagnuMagnus2 months ago

    @NightBlado It got better after a while, but it really didn't help.

  42. NightBlado

    NightBlado2 months ago

    Yeah, I actually skip this video because of that =/

  43. malusignatius

    malusignatius3 months ago

    Oooooh! You're doing First Australian mythology! Very keen to see where that goes.

  44. Zepistopheles

    Zepistopheles3 months ago

    It's by no means a definition but personaly, I would say a myth is at the latest when a component part is so internalised into culture that it can be used without context. By this measure tolkien already is Myth because things like the portrayal of elves, darfes and orks is so prevalent that it has entered into a sort of over-arcing headcanon for what fictional races are. Thinking about this i noticed that parody might make it look almost everything is mythernalised pretty much instantly by this measure but parodies exist in reference to a specific work or at least the component parts usually do. Part of the joke is that you recognise the work that is being made fun of whereas people don't usually go "oh it's a Lord of the Rings inspired thing" when they come accross a dwarf-mining race that happens to have a lot of axe and hammer fighters.

  45. Cthul-who

    Cthul-who3 months ago

    It's weird to me that the Noh Theater has no major basis in mythology. I can't think of another culture whose plays didn't originate as acting out oral tradition stories, usually religious. Even modern western writing, though sometimes not directly inspired by mythology, still borrows or mutates from a vast majority of its elements. Where did Noh Theater get all of its tropes then???

  46. Alesha Morris

    Alesha Morris3 months ago

    Mimetic circulation I definitely agree with an a definitive part of the development of what we call myth, but the best definition I have seen comes from Crash Course: "A myth is a story that bears significance and staying power." They are significant, explaining something about the culture from which they emerge, or reflect that culture's effort to explain their world.

  47. enoughofyourkoicarp

    enoughofyourkoicarp3 months ago

    When it comes to deciding if a myth belongs on the channel I would look to the example of Tsun Tzu, we still don't really know if he was actually a real person or if his teachings were accumulated over many centuries, what is important, however, is that we can see that the information should be preserved because it works and it's also kind of a cool story that contextualizes that information. On the other hand to assess the value of a myth you kind of have to look at it from the opposite end, rather than using a story to pass on information a myth helps us to reverse engineer how various peoples used to see the world and what perspectives and ideals they held as important and tried to preserve as well as the stories they told for fun or because they thought it was cool, so instead of asking whether a story is man or myth I think a better question would be 'What does this myth tell us about a given culture?'

  48. Benjamin Chen

    Benjamin Chen3 months ago

    In this series, I would just like to hear about stories with less traditional story structure. no more Hero's Journey please. FYI, I think the consensus on Homer is that he was a person, and while he did not create much of the the stories, his contribution was the epic: the idea of stringing multiple disparate already existing stories together in something that was more than the sum of its parts.

  49. Zithrandmir

    Zithrandmir3 months ago

    ugg...10 seconds into the actual video and I just can't with the wind sound. It was a cool idea to get a good looking shot but really you should be mic'd for these types of videos.

  50. Seystuff

    Seystuff3 months ago

    So, I can't provide off my own cavilations a clear line to where regular stories end and myths start, BUT, I do believe that the process goes from a story being created by a single individual, regardless of intent and medium, then shared and popularized enough that it becomes widespread, then modifications either in the way it is told or simply due to reinterpretations become more and more prevalent/radical/popular. At some point during that three part structre, the story became a myth, and even the two last steps can sometimes be intertwinned or out of order. But I can't pinpoint it with precission. Heck, even that is just my opinion.

  51. Timothy Ross

    Timothy Ross3 months ago

    My opinion is that a story becomes a myth when it is A) currently believed to be untrue, and B) demonstrably was believed to be true by a sufficiently large community in the past (for instance, forming a religion that is based on it). The OG Thor is a myth because he was worshiped, but the Marvel Thor is a story because despite the importance of the figure to our society, no one really believed he existed. King Arthur is a myth, but the 3 Musketeers are a story.

  52. Troy Costisick

    Troy Costisick3 months ago

    I think Star Wars, Lord of the Rings, Star Trek, Avengers, Twilight, Hunger Games, etc. are modern myths. They're stories that communicate ideals to younger generations that form the value system of society in general. To me, that's what a myth does. If we know the origin of it, that doesn't make the story less mythical IMHO.

  53. Rhi Starsinger

    Rhi Starsinger3 months ago

    The lines between Myth, Fokelore, and Fandom are exceedingly blurry. I think it;s more of a gradient.

  54. Ferris Newhall

    Ferris Newhall3 months ago

    Y'all should do a video on the Japanese mythological and religious themes in Sekiro.

  55. barbiquearea

    barbiquearea3 months ago

    Its also interesting that Buddhism didn't supersede the religion of its native country, India and replace Hinduism but coexisted with it without conflict.

  56. Max San

    Max San3 months ago

    Is windnoise a myth?

  57. Nick Anderson

    Nick Anderson3 months ago

    I heard somewhere that superheroes are like modern mythology. People know the characters and roughly what their stories and personalities are, so much so that audiences often want the origins of Batman and Spider-Man skipped over in movies because they already know what happens. Another example I thought of is the Joker movie coming out in the fall. If someone makes a movie about a guy struggling with mental illness, trying to care for his ailing mother, and being constantly pushed down by society until he finds meaning in being an anarchic villain, it would garner some attention and maybe become a cult classic. Once you put the name "Joker" on it, everyone wants to see it because they're familiar with the character and would find an ending with the protagonist being a villain more satisfying, since that is the character they know him to be.

  58. TheDrow79

    TheDrow793 months ago

    Gonna take a guess that they're going to do the Rainbow Serpent for the Aboringal Mythology

  59. Banzai Bot

    Banzai Bot3 months ago

    If you want more leeway, consider later folklore as that which is believed or was believed to be true. Lots of stuff that's far more recent than mythology could be considered under this umbrella.

  60. Steven Santos

    Steven Santos3 months ago

    In social anthropology myths have no or a very tenuous tie to a factual person or event where that connection is stronger when you talk about legends. The story of Troy was considered a myth until excavations raised it to the level of legend, while the Iliad is mythic. You can apply that idea to Japanese myths and legends.

  61. The Kommandant

    The Kommandant3 months ago

    Two bombs weren't enough.

  62. Trevor Orchard

    Trevor Orchard3 months ago

    Coming from the Caribbean Folklore background, I would say something goes from a story to be presented to an audience TO a myth around the time that original story becomes dissociated from the original material. At the point society starts separating the original story from it's writer and starts to accept parts or all of it as something more fundamental to the society (when it becomes part of the social identity) or when part or all of a story are taken as representing a past, present or mythological event. For the Caribbean you have something like the Masion Bull, which was either an event or a story made to humour people (Fairly recent ~1960's is the general feel from the telling), but today it is part of the cultural expression during Carnival in many islands and people know it as THE story of the Masion Bull, complete with celebrated representations in the festivals. Whatever the source of the story it is now a very important part of the local folklore, and as far as the Caribbean has myths (I generally use the term folklore) it would definitely count amongst them. Have a peek at Caribbean Myths some time, we don't have a pantheon in the way more established groups do due to the wide range of peoples involved, but from that melting pot comes a whole host of unique stories, individuals and creatures.

  63. chavamara

    chavamara3 months ago

    I think something counts as a myth if there have started to be numerous retellings of it.

  64. Ranlac The Black

    Ranlac The Black3 months ago

    Cthulhu Myth! We absolutely know who invented what piece of the mythos, and yet the whole of it is definitely more than its parts!

  65. Gary Henry

    Gary Henry3 months ago

    My understanding is, if there is proof, archaeologically or primary source then it is history. If there is a story that is culturally significant, well known but can't be verified by scientific or primary source means then it's a myth, until evidence proves otherwise. "Myths" and stories written later are fiction.

  66. Hessan's County

    Hessan's County3 months ago

    Sorry but Buddhism coexisting with an existing indigenous religion and integrating myths is not unique to Japan. In Korea, the native shamanistic tradition (Shingyo or Mugyo) served different, but complementary roles with Buddhist and Daoist practices. Buddhism and Mugyo are less influential today than Buddhism and Shinto in Japan, but that is because of Neo-Confucianists, Japanese colonialism efforts, and "modernizing" development efforts suppressing parts of Korean culture that did not match their world views or they thought of as "backward" and "embarrassing."

  67. Casey Rose

    Casey Rose3 months ago

    Could you make more episodes on christian mythology? Like stuff they have in their holy book etc