Dune - Muad'dib - Extra Sci Fi - #4

Charismatic leadership can conceal corruption, and Frank Herbert saw how dangerous this was in the political events he lived through. Leto Atreides, Valdimir Harkonnen, and Paul Atreides (Muad'dib) each represent different types of charismatic but very faulty leadership practices.
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  1. Extra Credits

    Extra CreditsYear ago

    Keep an eye on our social media for news about the next season of Extra Sci Fi! There's still so many cool and interesting authors we want to cover, and thank you for joining us on this chronological ride through the history of science fiction. You can get the Extra Sci Fi art postcards set here (and let us know if we should make another set from the newer episodes!): store.dftba.com/collections/extracredits/products/extra-sci-fi-illustration-pack You can get the Extra Sci Fi soft logo t-shirt here: store.dftba.com/collections/extracredits/products/extra-sci-fi-logo-shirt Also, why not check out any of the books we've talked about on this show from your local library? bit.ly/ESF_List

  2. Gabe the grourami Fish

    Gabe the grourami Fish11 months ago

    This made me buy the book

  3. ꧂Oddish꧂

    ꧂Oddish꧂11 months ago

    The tragedy of Paul is that, at the end of his life, the one person he hated more than even Baron Harkonnen... was himself. The one who unleashed the Fremen and instilled in them the fanaticism and self-righteousness. And the one who was unable to stop it. The one who abandoned his family so that he could be free. Paul truly died in the desert. The Preacher was his ghost to take verbal vengeance on his legacy. That is the tragedy... of Muad'dib.

  4. LordBloodySoul

    LordBloodySoul11 months ago

    God damn it, you're streaming while I am at work! D:

  5. jihadthat777

    jihadthat77711 months ago

    Ah McCarthyism, the thing that AoC wants to bring back by 'making a list' of dems that dont agree with her like the authoritarian twat she pretends not to be.

  6. Alejandro Garcia

    Alejandro Garcia11 months ago

    Do 1984.

  7. reginaldino enchillada

    reginaldino enchillada12 days ago

    A true masterpiece. Why is the first album/film/book the best one? Because their entire life experience has been drawn upon to create that art, that initial expression of their vision and duplicating the feat in one year is difficult. The first one took their whole life up till then, now to do a second one in a year or two? it can be done but, it's not going to be as good.

  8. TheMrVengeance

    TheMrVengeance20 days ago

    Are these book-club streams available somewhere in a stream archive? I'd love to watch them, but the VODs will have been deleted from Twitch by now.

  9. Yiṣḥāq David

    Yiṣḥāq David20 days ago

    Just finished reading Dune. The one thing I didnt like is how a year will go by from page to another without anything really being said. One chapter Paul just meets Chani then next he had a 2-year-old son with her? Also, the battle at the end was so not epic. They set the whole thing up and then skipped it. It's not written how little Leto died. They tell you and you are like what? When did that happen? It seems like nearing the end Hebert was just trying to get the book done and over. There are so many time jumps without proper explanation. Great book though but id rather read another 500 pages about what happened in those leaps of time. It was frustrated with the ending. Just my 2 cents.

  10. R Wixel Barnwell

    R Wixel BarnwellMonth ago

    Watching this makes me grateful for John the First of England. John the First by being a monster without the charisma to pull it off provoked the creation of the Magna Carta. If John the First had been brilliant, charismatic, powerful, or successful, England might have staid in the quagmire of absolute monarchy and the dissemination of power that has allowed for the creation of the United Kingdom might never have begun.

  11. SuperGamer TV

    SuperGamer TVMonth ago

    So basically: Charisma 10 = not so good

  12. Adrian Webster

    Adrian WebsterMonth ago

    And unfortunately, I think it is in the last warning that Frank Herbert failed. He didn't really show the terrible consequences of the jihad in a meaningful way. A bunch of nameless people died, but since they are nameless we don't feel their deaths. Then he makes the Golden Path vision out to be correct instead of misguided and wrong. So instead of warning against charismatic leaders, the novels tell us that the prophets know better than everyone else and we should trust their visions in the end. Individual loss is to be sacrificed for the survival of the species. Paul is a hero for starting on the path and a failure for not seeing it through and Leto II is the "good hitler" because his tyranny saves the species. At least Alia is a nuanced and interesting character.

  13. Kumogakure42

    Kumogakure42Month ago

    The artwork is awesome!

  14. Arshan

    Arshan3 months ago

    This also plays into the radicalization of Fremen's baseline beliefs by Bene Gesserit and the Atreides, which end up blowing in their face by inadvertently creating a jihad across the stars - interesting parallel to real life

  15. samualwatkins

    samualwatkins5 months ago

    Donald trump is fucking Harkonan... Take that statement literally as much or as little as you like

  16. Glen Wang

    Glen Wang5 months ago

    5:03 - "You know nothing, Muad'Dib." XD

  17. Kyle Henderson

    Kyle Henderson6 months ago

    So that's how Trump got elected.

  18. Jeff Hilton

    Jeff Hilton6 months ago

    I like the 50's American view of the world, in part because of what it implies. If a good person listens to authority, and follows rules, then that implies duty on the part of the authority and those that make the rules, etc., to serve those that trust in them. The idea of "being a good person" in the traditional sense acts as a base case for a recursively defined societal structure where an individual's genuine attempts at personal responsibility and trust in others generates trust that can be placed in them, creating a solid foundation. When a person of authority breaks that trust, it either becomes the responsibility of that individual to rebuild trust, or it becomes the rest of society's job to reject that negative influence. I know a verse of scripture that puts it very well: "...The rights of the priesthood are inseparably connected with the powers of heaven, and that the powers of heaven cannot be controlled nor handled, only upon the principles of righteousness. .. That they may be conferred upon us, it is true; but when we undertake to cover our sins, or to gratify our pride, our vain ambition, or to exercise control or dominion or compulsion upon the souls of the children of men, in any degree of unrighteousness, behold, the heavens withdraw themselves; the Spirit of the Lord is grieved; and when it is withdrawn, Amen to the priesthood or the authority of that man." (Doctrine & Covenants 89: 36-37). The scripture speaks specifically to Godly authority, but the principle applies to secular authority as well.

  19. soviet comrade

    soviet comrade7 months ago

    I'm seeing that metro exodus's leaders are based off these novels

  20. Venetian Scorn

    Venetian Scorn7 months ago

    what a bunch of superficial crap

  21. Howard Lanus

    Howard Lanus7 months ago

    Hey can you guys do alternate history? Harry Turtledove, S.M. Stirling, and Robert J Sawyer are great authors here.

  22. The Gavel is soundgavel

    The Gavel is soundgavel8 months ago

    At this point I have to ask: Did you guys actually read the book or just copy Professor Edgy Angsts self attributing“progressive” college textbook for 2nd year freshmen?

  23. Zach Shereck

    Zach Shereck9 months ago

    *cough* The communist revolution was always a soviet dictatorship and was always going to be a soviet dictatorship. There was no "deterioration." *cough*

  24. Angry Kittens

    Angry Kittens9 months ago

    Daenerys was Muad'dib.

  25. Rosa I Guess

    Rosa I Guess9 months ago

    1:07 me

  26. Aaron Hicks

    Aaron Hicks9 months ago

    Did you really not mention anything about how Emperor Shaddam led by charisma based in tradition?

  27. LappelDuvide

    LappelDuvide9 months ago

    "Is there pain, Old Friend?" that line hurt me a little bit.

  28. drizer4real

    drizer4real10 months ago

    Great! Can you do a Foundation series as wel?

  29. Stephanie Moore

    Stephanie Moore10 months ago

    Thank you very well done!

  30. cameron120587

    cameron12058710 months ago

    Were there any female science fiction writers apart from mary Shelly that did significant works in the genre through the early, pulp, and Modern ages? How about now?

  31. Lemonade Sky

    Lemonade Sky10 months ago

    SPOILERS. I never realized how ironic all of the characters’ deaths were. Leto died, disgraced, by poison with no one to see but the Baron. The Baron died trying to plead the Emperor to commit more genocide. Paul, bound to his religion by relying on his clairvoyance and walking into the desert as a blind man.

  32. bemersonbakebarmen

    bemersonbakebarmen10 months ago

    Is there a chapter on Kurt Voneigut and his beautiful prose?

  33. Can you Unsubscribe me?

    Can you Unsubscribe me?10 months ago

    So even good people are bad.

  34. Sdsdfdu

    Sdsdfdu10 months ago

    Unless you've done this and I missed it, can you guys do a video on Michael Moorcock's Elric of Melnibone books, and his mastery/influence on dark fantasy and the antihero archetype?

  35. ijonus

    ijonus10 months ago

    Worst season so far, by a large margin. Huge disappointment.

  36. Zacharie St-Pierre

    Zacharie St-Pierre10 months ago

    Leto's description applies to justin Trudeau and the baron's applies to trump

  37. Steven Neiman

    Steven Neiman11 months ago

    That second one should sound familiar to every American right about now.

  38. Reid Wallace

    Reid Wallace11 months ago

    I need moar of this in my life.

  39. bearianna

    bearianna11 months ago

    Ummmmm... I cannot believe this, but I currently have a secondhand copy of dune in my possession! 💃🏼 I think my dad bought it from our library’s bookstore, which means it’s ours. 😄

  40. MrOvertoad

    MrOvertoad11 months ago

    You forgot the Bene Gesserit. The ones who created the myth behind the coming freman savior/profit Muad'dib. They seeded the legend a 1000 years before Muad'dib and proceeded to use selective breading in order to make a super being they could control who would be Muad'dib. Many times its the power behind the throne that should be most feared.

  41. Patrick McGraw

    Patrick McGraw11 months ago

    Since you're doing apocalypses next season, please please PLEASE cover Gene Wolf's Book of the New Sun. It's a perfect fit for your series.

  42. Yora

    Yora11 months ago

    Baron Donald Harkonen.

  43. Patrick Milewski

    Patrick Milewski11 months ago

    The three charismatic leadership styles: Leadership based purely on performance and image: Vladimir Putin and Barack Obama. Leadership based on pandering: Donald Trump, Emmanuel Macron. Leadership based on spirituality/religious devotion: Logan Paul, Sargon Of Akkad, Pewdiepie?

  44. Monadic Pastoralist

    Monadic Pastoralist11 months ago


  45. Thomas K96

    Thomas K9611 months ago

    More Lord of the Rings videos please.

  46. LocalHeretic 1127

    LocalHeretic 112711 months ago

    Leto Atreides was not perfect but I still love him the most. "FOR THE DUKE!"

  47. The Bronze Age of DC Comics

    The Bronze Age of DC Comics11 months ago

    So, Reagan, Trump, and Khomeini, respectively.

  48. loszhor

    loszhor11 months ago

    Well made! I really liked this series but this one was my favorite!

  49. Leonidas Noble

    Leonidas Noble11 months ago

    I realize that I'm about to speak heresy, but I don't believe Lord of the Rings should be elevated to the level of Dune. I am not saying that Lord of the Rings shouldn't be revered, but rather Dune is more than science-fiction or even fantasy. Dune is a commentary on the human condition. Lord of the Rings, on the other hand, is more properly placed in the company Gilgamesh or Beowulf (which was the author's intention). There will never be a time that Dune will not be relevant to the times or that Lord of the Rings ever will be. All in all, well done (CBG19 did it better). May open hostilities begin.

  50. Tuptastic Studios

    Tuptastic Studios11 months ago

    When you have a 20 in charisma

  51. Arvid P.

    Arvid P.11 months ago

    Oh no, the terrible waiting time begins anew!

  52. Zebra Outpost VA/Sorrow106

    Zebra Outpost VA/Sorrow10611 months ago

    Does anything get thoughts of Obama? Liked him but I keep forgetting about the air strikes he called and etc since how charismatic he is

  53. ElTrolldego

    ElTrolldego11 months ago

    is 'Vladimir Harkonnen' too hard to pronounce?

  54. Sort of

    Sort of11 months ago

    Muad'dib' has always been the one for me. "The hands move, the lips move -- Ideas gush from his words, And his eyes devour! He is an island of Selfdom". --description from 'A Manual of Muad'Dib' by the Princess Irulan.

  55. Nemo Scio

    Nemo Scio11 months ago

    2:50 oh my! The butlerian jihad failed!

  56. Wabi Sabi

    Wabi Sabi11 months ago

    I'd hate to see a leader who combines ALL of those styles. It would probably be a tremendous disaster, like the world has never seen. Sad! Why do I suddenly want Cheetos?

  57. Mordalon

    Mordalon11 months ago

    God Emperor Leto II is basically this.

  58. Wabi Sabi

    Wabi Sabi11 months ago

    @Keyser94 I haven't actually read the book yet, so I was basing that joke purely on this video.

  59. Keyser94

    Keyser9411 months ago

    I think that you are mistaken, he is more Shadam Corrino than Leto, Paul or even Vladimir Harkonnen.

  60. shyguy

    shyguy11 months ago

    Make a video about Pythagoras

  61. West Kagle

    West Kagle11 months ago

    . People would be willing to go along with dangerous Ideas if they were put forth by charismatic individuals........looking at you Alexandria Occasional Cortex and your Green New Deal.

  62. Amber Sutton

    Amber Sutton11 months ago

    Woo dystopia and apocalypse! Can't wait :D

  63. Johannes Wiegerinck

    Johannes Wiegerinck11 months ago

    You guys have to address that Paul goes terrorist in the end and how terrorism fabricating imbecile fear nowdays is super consequential. He does. He says he will fuck up civilization back to the stone age, UNLESS... Thats also a sobering lesson.

  64. Johannes Wiegerinck

    Johannes Wiegerinck11 months ago

    Philosophy is important, but tactics are as well. And super relevant for contemporary dynamics.

  65. Roxor128

    Roxor12811 months ago

    I think that's a good warning: Never trust the charismatic.

  66. Tim Sullivan

    Tim Sullivan11 months ago

    GigawingsVideo," back when I was 13, my opinion of "Dune" owed little (read: zilch) to an appreciation for Herbert's artful delivery of a timely cautionary tale - instead, I was just a kid who was blown away by a super-cool action story - one that fueled countless hours of adventure among the sprawling expanse of dunes separating our rented cottage from the shore of Lake Huron's Georgian Bay. Many a summer's eve saw valiant Fremen crawling stealthily along the strand, on their silent quest for a hidden cache of Spice (a.k.a. packs of "Lik-a-made" powdered candy), ever-alert for noise-guided hands or feet of the blind-folded Sandworms, whose ears were pricked for the slightest sound which would launch them blindly rolling towards the source, arms and legs flailing madly about in hopes of scoring the slightest touch - spelling instant death for that unlucky Freman. The fatal touch of the Sandworms could only be evaded while crawling, UNLESS in desperation, a Freman called out, "STANDING UP!", allowing them all to now stand and run freely about in a frantic spice search. After a 3 second countdown, all Sandworms, now fully-lethal thanks to the vibrations from Freman feet, remove blindfolds, jump to their feet and set about decimating the ranks of the searchers. Because Sandworms could not be killed, the Freman death rate progressed geometrically meaning without a lucky quick spice find, very soon ALL worms would be after one Freman. So... Sandworms ruled!

  67. Tim Sullivan

    Tim Sullivan11 months ago

    @storerestore Do I detect a note of regret here? It sounds like you might have a real sorry storerestore story. (Sorry...)

  68. storerestore

    storerestore11 months ago

    I wish I was 13

  69. sette

    sette11 months ago

    Here in Brazil we have a Vladimir as president. He got elected by the people through exactly the way you said how it's dangerous to us. People just never learn, I guess... Amazing video as always, guys.

  70. Paul Perkins

    Paul Perkins11 months ago

    No, it's Russia that has a Vladimir as President. In more ways than one.

  71. Texasp12

    Texasp1211 months ago

    How is Bolsonaro can be like Vlad, but doesn't make him Vlad.

  72. FunkyDude 08

    FunkyDude 0811 months ago

    Hey, if you are doing apocalypses, you should totally do Alas, Babylon, by Pat Frank

  73. Jonathan Lee

    Jonathan Lee11 months ago

    hmmm... so, what makes a good leader? I thought people like Leto should be able to rule because they will take care of us, good people that take care of others, isn't that a sign of someone who should lead? to spread the good? Though yes I understand that ideas and what you do with the people that hold you up and pursue is important, if it is a good an actually just cause why don't they lead?